Naruto Discussion Thread

[s_agent]

A lot of impressions. I'm going off of what I've seen. We know the 1st beat madara and rested control of the 9tails from him. I think the best bet is he used the 9tails during their fight to beat madara. Sasuke breaking out of tsukuyomi hasn't been 100% confirmed as all sasuke's doing. I'd bet itachi was just pushing him to attack. In an instant tsukuyomi took down kakashi, and we know itachi can control the tsukuyomi world so what he did to sasuke doesn't really match w/ what we know.

The 1st's cells allow for mokuton. Yamato and danzo prove that. Danzo just doesn't have yamato's control. The zetsu clones are able to do a lot w/ plants and i'm assuming that's from the 1st's cells as well.

We know madara escaped the battle w/ a piece of hashirama. He implanted it in himself/absorbed it and gained the rinnegan. He knew about mokuton. All this leads me to believe that madara knew he could use mokuton before his death but he just never got the chance (not him not having it). What kabuto did was use yamato and the cells that tobi had to increase the power of madara's mokuton.

[NeonNemesis]

A lot of impressions. I'm going off of what I've seen. We know the 1st beat madara and rested control of the 9tails from him. I think the best bet is he used the 9tails during their fight to beat madara. Sasuke breaking out of tsukuyomi hasn't been 100% confirmed as all sasuke's doing. I'd bet itachi was just pushing him to attack. In an instant tsukuyomi took down kakashi, and we know itachi can control the tsukuyomi world so what he did to sasuke doesn't really match w/ what we know.

The 1st's cells allow for mokuton. Yamato and danzo prove that. Danzo just doesn't have yamato's control. The zetsu clones are able to do a lot w/ plants and i'm assuming that's from the 1st's cells as well.

We know madara escaped the battle w/ a piece of hashirama. He implanted it in himself/absorbed it and gained the rinnegan. He knew about mokuton. All this leads me to believe that madara knew he could use mokuton before his death but he just never got the chance (not him not having it). What kabuto did was use yamato and the cells that tobi had to increase the power of madara's mokuton.

The problem in there is the reason why everything I posted was around impressions and theories, and in the end so do you and everyone discussing around this, untill Kishi gives us a flashback of Mandara vs Hashirama, which I think he will when Mandara gets beaten, we don't have enough info on Hashirama to take obvious conclusions.

I had forgoten of the deflect arrow usaged of Mokuton from Danzo, Yamato was created for that purpose, but the Zetsu's I don't recall of them ever using Mokuton, the closest was them dying at KCM Naruto which turned them into trees due to his properties, the other ones that died, never turned, Tobi never pulled Mokuton either.

We don't know if Mandara escaped with a piece of Hashirama and implanted upon himself, for all that we know, Hashirama might have bled over his wounds which gave him the Senju DNA, the rinnegan could have been voluntary or could have been an accidental discovery.
I don't think it was the cells that Tobi had, but rather Yamato's ones, which makes more sense giving his interest for him, considering he said in the last chapter that what Danzo prototyped was way below what Oro created, it makes more sense than taking upon other research, not to mention Tobi would be very likely unwilling to supply him with that.

[s_agent]

Zetsus dying and turning into trees isn't a good indication of them having hashirama's cells? Not only that but they can release spores (madara's latest jutsu does that) and are strengthened by the cells yamato has.

All i'm saying is it seems pretty clear to me that madara had mokuton pre-edo. kabuto just boosted the effectiveness of the mokuton (like w/ the zetsu clones).

[Wolfwood]

I told you he was Obito!

[s_agent]

If it had to be anyone it should be obito. It just doesn't make sense time-wise. During the 9-tails attack tobi fought minato 1 on 1 pretty evenly. Kakashi was in his late teens then. Obito got one hell of a powerboost. He went from chunin to fighting a kage w/i a handful of years. Only naruto/sasuke have had that kind of boost. They had a lot of help.

My other guess was madara's younger brother. Time-wise it makes sense. Story-wise, not so much.

I think it's pretty clear now that Madara had mokuton pre-death. Kabuto just made the cells stronger. It's also clear that Tobi is on Madara's level, especially w/ the rinnegan.

And oro being back...w/ more secrets that can change the world. lame.

[NeonNemesis]

The moment the time/space connection between both Kakashi's sharingan and Tobi's one was revealed I was sure it was Obito as well, it was either that or someone picked his eye, but chances for the 2nd were really low.

This must be the shitiest plot twist ever in naruto, not only it makes zero sense time wise both in his size and power boost since Kakashi Gaiden to the events of the Kyuubi release, the only redeeming factor in there seems that half of his face is aged and half is not that might indicate genetic change, however regrowing half of a face including a sharingan crushed under a rock makes zero sense, if there was a way to do it, I'm sure the rest of the world especially Oro who is a master of genetics wouldn't be so occupied chasing dead people's sharingan's.
The power boost to face the 4th is pushing logic to the limits.

And yeah, Oro being back with more plot twists and new (or old) important figures to decide the fate of the world looks really lame IMO as well.

This story has passed its expiration date that should have been in the pain arc, Tobi should have been an underling that dies in the explosion, Sasuke returns to the city and stops Danzo that tries a coup at that time and even helps Naruto on the Pain fight (Hinata's place for example), Naruto saves the city and has his best friend back and is acknowleged by everyone.

Like this, Obito is another emo disapointed with life with an attitude of "lets kill some people and enslave everyone to my will because life isn't fair"

[s_agent]

Izanagi...izanami...rinnegan, super susanoos. So many damn overpowered eye techniques. I'm having trouble seeing how the uchiha were even wiped out.

Read somewhere that the author is ending the manga pretty soon (1 yr or so from the time of the interview). thank god.

i think wolfwood's prediction is coming true. I don't think tobi has been obito all this time but we'll see.

[NeonNemesis]

If Tobi has been Obito during all this time it will make the plot even worse, because I find it hard for Obito to make a name for himself to the point where when he removes his mask in the 1st time he introduces to Kisame he gets instantly recognized and not being known to Konoha or any other village.

About the eye techniques I find funny that innitially Byankugan>>>>Sharingan, and at this point is another of those bloodlines stuff that give some advantage but are nothing special and with all the upgrades Sharingan has been getting the only thing stopping me from seeing it as an equal if not superior to rinnegan is the fact that Mandara also uses Sharingan techniques with rinnegan.

[s_agent]

I saw it as Byakugan and sharingan had strengths and weaknesses. Neither was exactly superior to the other. Byakugan had x-ray vision, extended vision, could see chakra points and chakra levels better. sharingan had genjutsu and could follow people better/copy.

then there's the new triple bloodline stuff. these apparently can be taught, going against the idea of it. then stuff like the 1st's wood release isn't passed on to his genetic heirs but can simply be injected into people.

[NeonNemesis]

The innitial concept had byankugan as 360º vision range with all the capabilities of the sharingan (that at the time was only a sort of auto-lock to track enemy movements with chakra vision mode) plus the abilities to see Chakra vessels in the oponents that combined with the hyuga fighting style made them freaking dangerous even to multiple oponents, the sharingan made them dangerous on 1 on 1 fights but not so on multiple oponents fights (therefore the if you're alone run, if you're more one distracts the other strikes from the back that Chiyo said they did during the war).
Which is why they went trought all that trouble of binding all the Byankugans of the non main familly so it would never be taken in battle.

After that Sharingan started to get ridiculous upgrades 1st it was slight upgrates like the natural afinity to genjutsu that could be achieved by simple eye lock, but then came the more heavy ones like the 3 MS techniques (and where does Kamui and the phasing Kamui from Obito come from then? Isn't MS limited to tsukuyomi, amaterasu and susanoo?) then the absurd Izanagi and the Izanami with reality manipulation, the super susanoo I'd argue its a rinnegan/sharingan combo only, but after these huge ass upgrades Sharingan is easilly the top of byankugan and actually has a good shot against rinnegan if its not from someone that has afinity for the sharingan techniques (Mandara). Initially many come with great costs but there some way to counter that later on so they can be abused (EMS for example)

The triple bloodline is absurd, bloodlines meant that they could only be inherited by descendants of that same bloodline and IIRC it might not always due to DNA incompatibility, but the suposelly most complex to get, a combo of 3 elements can be taught?
About the 1st wood, they somehow putted that compatibility with it was very low (Yamato was the only from a good deal of babies that survived), but is simply too convinient that Danzo, Mandara and Obito are fortunate to be compatible with Hashirama's DNA.

Even if most could only get the 1st part